tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post3199368419275116919..comments2024-03-28T15:10:11.645-05:00Comments on Western Fictioneers: THE DEVIL'S IN THE DETAILS by Cheryl PiersonWestern Fictioneershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01683314579075461026noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-52096023706977172192018-10-27T09:23:00.378-05:002018-10-27T09:23:00.378-05:00I agree, Gordo. I love the idea of adding in a few...I agree, Gordo. I love the idea of adding in a few details that actually make a difference and aren't redundant. Building the environment is really important and a lot of people don't understand that.Cheryl Piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116526340220274282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-37684783611847791032018-10-24T11:22:49.453-05:002018-10-24T11:22:49.453-05:00I like description of what is going on around the ...I like description of what is going on around the characters and action, the terrain, the room, etc and what the characters are doing. I just finished writing a book about a female wildlands firefighter ("Blazing Summer"). There's a lot more to firefighting that spraying water or throwing dirt on fires. I try and show some of that by working it into the story and not just a info dump. In "The Hardest Ride" I worked in some details of what they ate and wore and how things were done and many reviewers commented on how that enhanced the story. I keep it simple and short. I think it adds more to the story within reason and helps build the scenes, the mood, and the environment.Gordohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17411491669023091364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-74117053747318450842018-10-18T21:00:01.645-05:002018-10-18T21:00:01.645-05:00You're making progress! That's good!You're making progress! That's good!Cheryl Piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116526340220274282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-23324644106325722122018-10-18T16:44:19.812-05:002018-10-18T16:44:19.812-05:00We're maybe half done. The kitchen is pretty ...We're maybe half done. The kitchen is pretty well set up so that helps. None of the other rooms are done.Jacquie Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17361793932364487636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-23201155896803786922018-10-18T11:42:31.729-05:002018-10-18T11:42:31.729-05:00Jacquie, that's the great thing about this ol&...Jacquie, that's the great thing about this ol' world--we all have our ways of doing things and our different talents! I'm terrible about writing reviews because I give away too much! LOL <br /><br />Yes, I love the dialogue, too. I mentioned Kathleen Eagle above, and I have to say, her dialogue is always so good and yet, you have to think about it sometimes, because it always "ties in" somehow to what's happening--it's never just "there" to fill up space. <br /><br />Thanks so much for stopping by, my friend. Got the moving all done? Unpacking finished?Cheryl Piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116526340220274282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-32816661985239704792018-10-18T02:11:35.768-05:002018-10-18T02:11:35.768-05:00I love a fast-paced story and I skim. That's ...I love a fast-paced story and I skim. That's how I learned to read--by picking out pertinent details and skimming the rest. So now I have no patience for long passages of narrative, be it description or another repetition of how the character feels and why he's doing what he's doing. My eyes hunt for the next bit of dialogue because I want to get on with the story. I doubt if I read more than 2/3 of the words in the best books and maybe half or fewer in most. And I never miss a thing.<br /><br />OTOH, this is why I could never be an editor. Ever. And I'm a terrible proofreader! Jacquie Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17361793932364487636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-23907089434296111962018-10-17T14:28:38.543-05:002018-10-17T14:28:38.543-05:00Oh, yes, Bev! I should have mentioned LaVyrle Spen...Oh, yes, Bev! I should have mentioned LaVyrle Spencer and also another favorite of mine, Penelope Williamson. Those authors use detail to such perfection. The first book of LaVyrle Spencer's I ever read was Morning Glory--I usually don't read books in that time period, but that one--I liked the blurb on the back and thought I would try it since I'd not read any of her books. OMG! That book was so wonderful with the details she used and the way she told that story--you could see that entire town just as she described it, and the people, too. <br /><br />And you are so right about the 5 senses. That's very important. And sometimes, really hard to do. I find myself relying more on sight and hearing than anything else. I have to be careful of that when I'm writing. <br /><br />Thanks for stopping by, Bev! Cheryl Piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116526340220274282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-18145298600483368732018-10-17T14:23:30.167-05:002018-10-17T14:23:30.167-05:00Sarah, you made me laugh! "A big snore"-...Sarah, you made me laugh! "A big snore"--yes, I guess every author out there has some passages that are "a big snore" to some readers, right? I'd forgotten about those passages in her books--you're right--but I read them, and never skimmed! LOL <br /><br />All kidding aside, yes, I think a lot of unnecessary detail DOES derail the story! We want to move on with the action, not take time for a history lesson or a class in weaponry or plant life. In many cases it reminds me of the old days when we'd go on vacation and my mom would love the scenery so much and she'd try to take pictures of the mountains or the sunset, etc. and of course, you know what happens when you get the pictures back from a Kodak Instamatic camera of a gorgeous sunset...yeah...it's nice, but it's nothing like the real thing. So it is with descriptions sometimes. <br /><br />Thanks for stopping by, Sarah!Cheryl Piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116526340220274282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-67866445839920909712018-10-17T12:33:00.139-05:002018-10-17T12:33:00.139-05:00Cheryl, Thanks so much for a very interesting blog...Cheryl, Thanks so much for a very interesting blog. It makes us authors sit up and take notice of our work; to remember what and how we want our readers to feel, sense, and to visualize, while making our characters so strong and so interesting that they are totally engaged and invested in them, and the story. I've always felt if a story makes a reader, cry, laugh, or maybe even giggle, or even get angry, to feel the emotions of our characters and feel all the ups and downs, then we've done our jobs. Over the years I've read several genres, oodles of authors, but my love is historical romance. So long story short, when I'm reading I enjoy a story that pulls me in with all five scenses--so I need the descriptions to feel I'm there, yet not so much it gets humdrum; while at the same time I need and will be rooting for and be invested in the believeable, interesting and strong characters as well. LaVyrle Spencer, Kathryn Woodwiss, JoAnna Lindsay, oodles more were my intorduction to historical romance--loved them all. I think those ladies used just the right recipe for 50% characters and 50% surroundings and settlings. Oh the list goes on. Beverly Wells authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12248685758575824289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-36240256355795518912018-10-17T09:39:09.207-05:002018-10-17T09:39:09.207-05:00I like details in a story that give me an image of...I like details in a story that give me an image of where the characters are and what's going on so I can feel a part of the story. I do not like when an author waxes on and on with details that have no relevance to the story plot. <br />I loved reading the Outlander series by Diana Gabaldon, but she had these places in which she went on and on about herbal remedies and botany for pages until it became a big snore. God love her, she has a doctorate in botany, but all that plant detail did not enhance the story line. In fact, I felt those extraneous details took me away from the characters and the action. <br />So, yeah, I do think an author, even one who is a great story teller, can go too far with details and derail the story.<br />Great subject, Cheryl. Sarah J. McNealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17749991094677728042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-36064165035453468552018-10-16T13:34:29.929-05:002018-10-16T13:34:29.929-05:00YES, Laurean! I agree. Those older books were writ...YES, Laurean! I agree. Those older books were written in that style and everyone did it--it was what was popular and accepted. Now, there has to be action in the beginning or people just aren't interested. Very sad, because I, too, like a little lead-up to the story sometimes, and sometimes that lead up can make the true action of the story even more exciting. But it does seem like those days are over. LOL <br /><br />Thanks for stopping by. I'm like you, too--I will cut those places where I seem to get away from the action too soon and get into description--time for that later on.Cheryl Piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116526340220274282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-29657331235324587062018-10-16T13:31:28.488-05:002018-10-16T13:31:28.488-05:00Kaye, I think readers who read more non-fiction ar...Kaye, I think readers who read more non-fiction aren't nearly as bogged down in details and description as those who read more fiction. The non-fiction is based on details and building the outcome on facts and actual happenings. In the fiction world, it's all pure imagination. I agree with you about Louis L'Amour! He has some of the most beautiful passages of description (one of the things I want to talk about later) and I never get bogged down when reading his stories.Cheryl Piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116526340220274282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-7549216068895948062018-10-16T13:26:47.571-05:002018-10-16T13:26:47.571-05:00Doris, when I got started thinking about this, I c...Doris, when I got started thinking about this, I couldn't quit. LOL I was lying in bed awake the other night thinking about this. Exciting stuff, huh? LOL <br /><br />Yes, I think there are so many details from historical time periods that have gone before because they've had years to be studied, collected, gone over with a fine toothed comb and written about. Isn't it strange to think that in future generations, they'll do the same for our time?Cheryl Piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116526340220274282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-29691384362748192782018-10-16T13:24:37.086-05:002018-10-16T13:24:37.086-05:00I wish there was some way of NOT tying funding to ...I wish there was some way of NOT tying funding to testing. I know there has to be some kind of standardization, but to me, that really puts a wrench in so many things.<br />Cheryl Piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116526340220274282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-9030486785309550742018-10-16T13:01:20.850-05:002018-10-16T13:01:20.850-05:00I do skim over description as I've matured, if...I do skim over description as I've matured, if it goes on and on. I loved author Emilie Loring's books as a young teen, but she might describe every petal on a rose bush, (exaggerating only a little). The rules were different when her books were popular. Books opened with a little backstory to set the mood. I liked that. <br /><br />Today's readers are more action-oriented. "Get to the point!" they seem to shout. Although, I try to abide by the "Action-in-the-first-paragraph rule", in my own books, I've been guilty of drifting into backstory in my first draft. I catch it later and make cuts. But this "drifting" helps me get to know my main character. So, it isn't a waste of time. I just cut this part out later, or weave it into a later chapter. Laurean Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06242693739806417138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-62744480989665108732018-10-16T12:07:13.667-05:002018-10-16T12:07:13.667-05:00It depends upon the author for me. Louis L'Amo...It depends upon the author for me. Louis L'Amour's details are just right for me, because his westerns 'speak' to me. Victor Hugo's details are too much, but then, I'm not a French history historian, and I get bogged down in his details. J.R.R. Tolkien is a wizard *pun intended* at writing details, which was necessary to build his fantasy world. For Sci-Fi... Robert Heinlein was also masterful in an understated way with his details. I lean more toward liking description more than dialogue, but I think this is because my non-fiction reading out numbers my fiction reading by quite a bit.Kaye Spencerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530735658588595790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-56657908447204446542018-10-16T12:02:22.716-05:002018-10-16T12:02:22.716-05:00I love the right kind of detail, the ones that mov...I love the right kind of detail, the ones that move the story along without bogging me down. Of course, in my research I read a lot of writing from the 1800s and boy was that full of detail. At the same time, I enjoy most of those stories because they do describe a time I'm not familiar with. It is the perspective of writers who are living that life. <br /><br />It is a fine line between too much and not enough and its the author who deftly handles those details that you love. You've given both writers and readers much to think about. DorisRenaissance Womenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09045401344374224512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-49515893856537421762018-10-16T11:58:52.797-05:002018-10-16T11:58:52.797-05:00From my retired teacher's perspective, the cur...From my retired teacher's perspective, the cursive writing issue is 'mostly' because the state achievement tests don't test cursive writing proficiency so why bother with teaching it when there isn't enough time in a school week to teach what is state-tested. (I'm not saying I agree, just saying it's a reason.)Kaye Spencerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530735658588595790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-35879938234579451592018-10-16T09:53:56.759-05:002018-10-16T09:53:56.759-05:00Hi Author Guy! I feel the same way sometimes--depe...Hi Author Guy! I feel the same way sometimes--depending on what I'm reading. I'm not a huge sci-fi fan, so there are a lot of details and descriptions that sometimes might be of much more interest (and understood better!) by those who read a lot of sci-fi novels than by me. Still, I don't skim. I really do try to read and understand and pay attention to it, because I think at some point, it may be something I need to know that is pertinent to the story. And, sometimes...well, it's not. LOL <br /><br />Like you, I'm all about the characters. I want to know all about them, and what they are thinking, doing, and feeling. Cheryl Piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116526340220274282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-44500318085495219732018-10-16T09:50:49.229-05:002018-10-16T09:50:49.229-05:00Darrel, I could probably do a 2-3 part article on ...Darrel, I could probably do a 2-3 part article on character descriptions alone. LOL And something that we don't think about is that even that style changes from genre to genre--it's not the same standard for describing a main character in a romance novel as in a sci-fi novel, say. Is it because the reader is interested in different aspects of the characters in the different types of books? Partly, I think. <br /><br />I, too, love those older books--as you say, they lend themselves to a style that really begs to be read aloud--you can see why that was a family pastime "back in the day" -- I always think of that scene in Gone With the Wind where Melanie is reading aloud and everyone knows where the men are except for Scarlett. <br /><br />I always read to my kids, even when they could have read it for themselves--because it gives you time to discuss things with them, explain, and just enjoy time together. Something else that's lost in today's world.Cheryl Piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116526340220274282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-7656537989730388522018-10-16T09:46:29.181-05:002018-10-16T09:46:29.181-05:00It's fascinating, isn't it, Christine? You...It's fascinating, isn't it, Christine? You know one thing that got me thinking about this was the very thought that here in the US, many states are doing away with teaching cursive writing in schools! The kids never learn it unless they're taught at home by someone, because school systems feel they don't need it since everything is digital now. Breaks my heart, because I write out everything longhand before I enter it into the computer. Why? Because that's where I get my creativity and always has been, from my earliest days. I've always found such joy in just having a pen or pencil and a blank piece of paper. To think there are generations now who won't ever be able to do that is just incredible to me. <br /><br />So in my mind, I was thinking about how writing styles and the ACT of writing, itself, has changed and will change in my lifetime, alone. Description is one of the first things that came to mind that has changed tremendously in the written word. Cheryl Piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116526340220274282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-73719790111161498092018-10-16T09:23:34.627-05:002018-10-16T09:23:34.627-05:00I've always been a character-oriented writer a...I've always been a character-oriented writer and reader. I see the story as what the characters do and perceive, which is not always what is around them. To me most descriptive prose is stuff to skip over to get to the next set of quotation marks.Author Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18316825723835547403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-52671613009101430702018-10-16T09:10:13.040-05:002018-10-16T09:10:13.040-05:00Great article, Cheryl. Can't wait for your tak...Great article, Cheryl. Can't wait for your take on characters. I love to read the older books. In those days, boy does that sound old, poetry was in its heyday and that pacing and rhythm was present in prose--not so much now days. Books were easier read aloud because of it.Darrel Sparkmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13102654334478751653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-73418621813083463902018-10-16T08:57:30.221-05:002018-10-16T08:57:30.221-05:00What an interesting perspective. I realized that w...What an interesting perspective. I realized that writing styles changed over time, but never gave a thought as to how that impacted on the way we describe things. C.A.Asbreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12342631407475364397noreply@blogger.com