tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post3335881448882156355..comments2024-03-28T22:25:23.698-05:00Comments on Western Fictioneers: Writing About Indians When You're Not OneWestern Fictioneershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01683314579075461026noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-8413659159979749712019-12-21T19:57:26.997-06:002019-12-21T19:57:26.997-06:00This is interesting information. However I would s...This is interesting information. However I would say as far as Indian versus native American is concerned, "Indian and "Native American" are not one in the same in terms of the original Inhabitants of "America" for the sake of this conversation could be considered "Indian", however someone like John Smith is a "native American". Not because necessarily because of his "Indian" heritage but because he was "European" who was born in and inhabited the America's just like the rest of the "Europeans" at the time. "Cherokee", not being the original/actual name of the people he shares a small lineage with is a translation error used as a way to create a "federally" recognized group of people separate from the original people. The idea if John Ross being a chief of the original people is interesting but seems unlikely. However creating a group of people, and using the lineage of the original people to separate yourself from the common settler gives you a unique advantage in many aspects of the newly formed government.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-35010759637006154642013-06-24T22:56:34.762-05:002013-06-24T22:56:34.762-05:00My inclination to NOT refer to American Indians as...My inclination to NOT refer to American Indians as Indians has more to do with knowing more Indian immigrants than Mohawks. The term irritates the hell out of them. <br /><br />That being said, I'll call anyone what they want to be called. Usually it's their name.;)Alison E. Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16449544045685213466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-12346353394532590442013-05-28T21:47:04.728-05:002013-05-28T21:47:04.728-05:00My closest friend is Cherokee. She told me about I...My closest friend is Cherokee. She told me about Indians preferring to be called Indian. That "Native American" was just another "white people's thing." I get dirty looks sometimes when I say it, but I'd rather be true to what Indians want to be called than politically correct.<br /><br />Looking forward to the rest of the series!Kassandra Lambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12868883056262771642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-65335399167495492282013-05-28T19:36:56.627-05:002013-05-28T19:36:56.627-05:00Valuable and insightful, Troy. I saved this blog o...Valuable and insightful, Troy. I saved this blog on paper and in my Evernote files, as well as sent it around the universe via Twitter and Facebook and LinkedIn. Wish you were closer to Texas, New Mexico or Arizona. This is one gal who would be in the front row of any of your Indian lectures. <br /><br />Dang! It's really going to be hard to quit saying "Native-American." I've said it a long, long time. Jodi Lea Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02914512243708096367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-4545934418060087052013-05-27T09:00:44.655-05:002013-05-27T09:00:44.655-05:00I hope you do make this a serial post. I've al...I hope you do make this a serial post. I've already gleaned some great facts to use from this post. I like your explanation of the cultural concepts of American Indians as opposed to the white concept of racial differences. I actually took notes.<br />I look forward to your future posts, Troy, because this one was sensational. Sarah J. McNealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17749991094677728042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-56319192781425673242013-05-25T22:02:22.599-05:002013-05-25T22:02:22.599-05:00My thanks to everyone who read and/or commented- I...My thanks to everyone who read and/or commented- I'm glad you enjoyed it, and I look forward to more. And I wish you COULD all sit in on my classes!Troy D. Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07744762061580915223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-57578157273865244132013-05-25T14:59:20.090-05:002013-05-25T14:59:20.090-05:00Thank you for taking the time to delve more deeply...Thank you for taking the time to delve more deeply into the subject. Like all mis-understood concepts it takes time and patience to undo all the years of mis-information. Great start. DorisRenaissance Womenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09045401344374224512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-44095159631670727152013-05-25T14:36:02.593-05:002013-05-25T14:36:02.593-05:00Having spent a lot of years working as a member of...Having spent a lot of years working as a member of an Indian owned Architectural/Engineering firm who consulted for the BIA and IHS, I found myself fortunate to make some really good friends on reservations throughout the US. The differences among the tribes -- the history and mystery of tribal conflicts -- has always amazed me. It also impacted my job, because getting various tribal members to agree on important issues was no easy thing. Feuds that occurred centuries ago are carried forward through oral tradition, and it could really make things interesting. What I did discover though, is that Indians have a keen sense of humor and really enjoy skewering non-Indians.Kit Pratehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173204190307056869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-48985868209386246162013-05-25T08:38:54.524-05:002013-05-25T08:38:54.524-05:00A well-written, informative post, Troy. I hope man...A well-written, informative post, Troy. I hope many, many people read this and learn, not just to write...but to understand what others have written. History has been skewed because of the accidental and often intentional misrepresentation of "race" vs. "tribe." East TN students are very fortunate to have you as a professor.<br />Kaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11211292377867409604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-5320645677163812882013-05-25T01:29:05.712-05:002013-05-25T01:29:05.712-05:00Most interesting, Troy. Thanks for confirming my u...Most interesting, Troy. Thanks for confirming my use of Indian rather than NT. One of my Indian correspondents once said, "Hell, you're a Native American, aren't you? Isn't Texas still in the United States?"Harlan Haguehttp://harlanhague.usnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-47504232512672186192013-05-24T19:01:48.490-05:002013-05-24T19:01:48.490-05:00Wonderful information Troy. I've been visiting...Wonderful information Troy. I've been visiting with and writing back and forth with the tribe I write most about and have learned some of what you have in your post. It is a fascinating culture. Paty Jagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03257614436422105729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-45184234962443374272013-05-24T15:31:24.739-05:002013-05-24T15:31:24.739-05:00Thank you, Troy! I'm looking forward to your ...Thank you, Troy! I'm looking forward to your future posts in this series.<br /><br />You've hit on the exact reason why there's not a single Indian in any of my westerns. I've never figured out how to reconcile the truth with the myth that western readers seem to expect--so I avoid it. This confusion came about when I was very young and my g-uncle was talking about his best friend. He and his friend were inseparable for well over 50 years--they hunted together, socialized, everything two men who are best friends do. But his best friend was 3/4 Shoshone, and my g-uncle made it clear that he was only friends with the 1/4 white part of him--the rest was "about the same as a dog."<br /><br />You can just imagine how shocked and disgusted I was. And confused. Why would his friend put up with that attitude? A 50+ year friendship! Clearly, the racial prejudice was one-sided. Just as clearly, I knew my understanding and concept of the various Indian cultures was sorely lacking.Jacquie Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17361793932364487636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-58999892928190234702013-05-24T15:10:52.069-05:002013-05-24T15:10:52.069-05:00An excellent explanation of a serious misconceptio...An excellent explanation of a serious misconception then and now. Look forward to future posts on the subject. Walt Knapphttp://www.wjkwrites.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-83089750307553567832013-05-24T13:01:22.008-05:002013-05-24T13:01:22.008-05:00Excellent post, Troy! For many years I thought I w...Excellent post, Troy! For many years I thought I was being "sensitive" using the term Native American. Then I took a Native American studies class in college and the professor was Assiniboine. Her first statement: "Raise your hand if you weren't born in America." When no hands went up she went on with her lecture. We were told if at all possible use their tribal name, but if we don't know which tribe they belong to use American Indian or Indian. Then it took forever to stop using Native American.<br /><br />I look forward to future lessons.Kirsten Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05720732595156726142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-39462965541494479152013-05-24T12:41:23.238-05:002013-05-24T12:41:23.238-05:00Excellent, excellent post, Troy. Wow, how many mis...Excellent, excellent post, Troy. Wow, how many mistakes have I made already, about my Native Am...excuse me, Indian characters, and me living and writing right here in "The Nations." The good news is, you made me understand that I am Cherokee, my way-back lineage having come from my mother's side. And, even though I'm "un-documented" on the white man's rolls, I'm still all by God Cherokee. Thanks for that, and, by all means, make your bullet points a series.Phil Trumanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05388294067961766208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-66983918380622388482013-05-24T11:54:22.171-05:002013-05-24T11:54:22.171-05:00Excellent. You will do a great service, Troy, by e...Excellent. You will do a great service, Troy, by expanding like this on each of your bullet points. And this is timely, too. Cherokee writer Robert J. Conley was just over at my blog talking about the need to fully research a tribe before writing an Indian character into a western story.<br /><br />Following the subject of race in early western fiction, you routinely come across the belief that a "half-breed" embodies the worst traits of both races. Thus they are often villains. And white men who cohabited with Indian women, called "squaw men," were deemed unworthy of the company of respectable white women. The attitude toward them comes very close to the regard in which sex offenders are held today. Ron Scheerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15357501069513854664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-15088584077393866792013-05-24T11:53:56.640-05:002013-05-24T11:53:56.640-05:00Troy, as always, a WONDERFUL post. We are Cherokee...Troy, as always, a WONDERFUL post. We are Cherokee and Choctaw, from what I've learned through genealogy research. Most people here in Oklahoma refer to themselves, as you say, by tribe. But I don't know anyone who objects to the term "Indian", and in fact, very few that I know call themselves "Native American"--it's usually "He's Choctaw," etc. I think you should consider doing some on-line lectures on the side--we'll PAY YOU! LOLLOL This is all fascinating stuff, of course, and there's no way to cover it all in one post--I'm so glad you are going to make a series of it.<br />CherylCheryl Piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116526340220274282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-35016619949006844732013-05-24T11:13:34.364-05:002013-05-24T11:13:34.364-05:00I loved that post. I wish I still lived in NC so I...I loved that post. I wish I still lived in NC so I could hop across those mountains to Knoxville and sit in on some of your lectures!<br />Most of us in Europe first learned about Indians through the writings of the 19th century German author Karl May. It is fascinating how he managed to get several details right, even though he never visited the West. I am looking forward to this series. Sounds like it could be material for a fascinating new book too.michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07631731846526639966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-42902174869258197122013-05-24T10:59:35.646-05:002013-05-24T10:59:35.646-05:00Thank you for the information. I lived in Wisconsi...Thank you for the information. I lived in Wisconsin for a few years near the Ojibwa reservations. It was a blast to talk to the older ones and compare how they viewed things compared to the Southern views I grew up with. Some, like the view of family were very similar. Others were like getting a glimpse of another world.<br /><br />One thing they wanted remembered was that they are not a historical group, they are still around.<br /><br />As for attitudes toward other tribes, it varied. One friend spoke of when he was younger, the only thing a Sioux was good for was to slap up side the head. <br /><br />The whole cultural difference between them and various white cultures is something I find fascinating. Thank you again for sharing.1LLoydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16963814112725103971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-46472288221616596362013-05-24T10:49:15.201-05:002013-05-24T10:49:15.201-05:00Thanks for clearing up some of the misconceptions,...Thanks for clearing up some of the misconceptions, Professor. Some segments of American society have the irritating habit of insisting their worldview/lifeway is the only correct way to organize the cosmos. My own research (not anywhere near as extensive as yours) led to the discovery that a goodly number of native peoples in the U.S. prefer to be called "Indian," "American Indian," or "AmerInd." (Without debating the group's more radical acts, the very name of AIM -- American Indian Movement, founded 1968 -- should have been a clue. ;-) )<br /><br />In several traditional Apache dialects, the People call themselves "ndee," "nde," or "indeh." Surprisingly similar to the English word "Indian," no?<br /><br />I'm looking forward to more in this series. :-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05740371055384281988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-33316407699312095232013-05-24T10:37:21.368-05:002013-05-24T10:37:21.368-05:00Troy-Most instructional. I feel as if I've bee...Troy-Most instructional. I feel as if I've been sitting in on one of your lectures. Fascinating but key information you've provided--something I don't think could be Googled successfully. The details you provided represent a textbook example (sorry, I couldn't resist) of the complexities involved in writing about Indians, and the kind of knowledge or inside details a writer should be equipped with in order to lend historical authenticity to a story. Thanks for saving me the cost of matriculating to Tennessee Tech for the class.thomasrizzohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00762315714546553945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-82077198213365736642013-05-24T10:22:39.464-05:002013-05-24T10:22:39.464-05:00I've heard FBI as "&%^% Big Indian.&q...I've heard FBI as "&%^% Big Indian."Troy D. Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07744762061580915223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-21460611346285375682013-05-24T10:20:47.360-05:002013-05-24T10:20:47.360-05:00My friend Hank Real Bird, of the Crow Tribe, has a...My friend Hank Real Bird, of the Crow Tribe, has a one-liner relative to the term "Native American."<br /><br />"I ain't no Native American," Hank says. "I'm F.B.I.--Full Blooded<br />Indian!"<br /><br />Works for me.<br /><br />Stan LyndeStan Lyndenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-63994259416046092392013-05-24T10:15:31.524-05:002013-05-24T10:15:31.524-05:00Sounds like you did, Charlie!Sounds like you did, Charlie!Troy D. Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07744762061580915223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-38815376070210334552013-05-24T10:09:37.982-05:002013-05-24T10:09:37.982-05:00In my, A Man Called Breed, Wolf Wilder is half Che...In my, A Man Called Breed, Wolf Wilder is half Cheyenne (father an unknown white man) and survivor of Sand Creek as a lad. Taken in by an Irish sergeant, earned a medal of honor as a scout out of Camp Verde (under Al Sieber). But whites still called him "breed." The Jicarilla Apaches, however, made no mention of his race. Maybe I got something right.ChuckTyrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02609200010767178944noreply@blogger.com