tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post824001247946287898..comments2024-03-28T22:25:23.698-05:00Comments on Western Fictioneers: Building Worlds in the Dark by Richard ProschWestern Fictioneershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01683314579075461026noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-47769129251872769382015-01-14T11:03:39.663-06:002015-01-14T11:03:39.663-06:00I agree Jim! And...sometimes when you're done ...I agree Jim! And...sometimes when you're done you have the idea for the next one! And the next one! And...<br /><br />Thanks for the comment!Richard Proschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08314680709014254183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-44991619876302454552015-01-14T11:02:49.794-06:002015-01-14T11:02:49.794-06:00Thanks for your comment Kaye. Wow! That spreadshee...Thanks for your comment Kaye. Wow! That spreadsheet novella sounds pretty intense! (And for a novella!) Details indeed! Richard Proschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08314680709014254183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-85375625395608449252015-01-14T11:00:44.471-06:002015-01-14T11:00:44.471-06:00I'm gonna have to keep an eye out for that Spi...I'm gonna have to keep an eye out for that Spillane story. MAC has done a great job with Spillane's unpublished output. Looking forward to it, Wayne! Thanks for the comment!Richard Proschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08314680709014254183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-64862711928570590332015-01-13T19:07:47.677-06:002015-01-13T19:07:47.677-06:00I've hardly ever outlined a story, and those t...I've hardly ever outlined a story, and those that I have generally wander from the outline anyway. Much more fun to just take a general idea and see where it leads you.Jim Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02190709130368990745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-21649743300592690802015-01-12T10:18:05.775-06:002015-01-12T10:18:05.775-06:00I'm a pantser, too. I've never written an ...I'm a pantser, too. I've never written an outline. It never made sense to me to outline. Heck, if I know that much about the story, then why take the time to outline when I could be writing the darn thing. *grin* (no offense meant toward the plotters/outliners out there -- we all walk our own storytelling road)<br /><br />I have done the 'timeline' strategy like Cheryl explained, when the story is complicated and certain events have to happen in a reasonably logical manner.<br /><br />I did, however, design a spreadsheet for a novella in order to meet the publisher's criteria for a particular line of loosely related stories of which I was one of 20 contributing authors. In this publisher's “world”, I could do this, but not do that. A certain character who would show up in the last book of the collection (written by this publisher), had to be mentioned in my story. Certain events in my story had to happen at a specific location, and so forth. I still have that information, which is good, because I recently received a rights reversion to my story. I plan to re-publish it, but I have to purge of all those publisher-points because she claimed 'ownership of them'. 0_o<br /><br />I'm awed by authors who write series stories. I'm striving to do that yet in my career.Kaye Spencerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530735658588595790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-278651783874393312015-01-12T10:15:51.621-06:002015-01-12T10:15:51.621-06:00Like Frank, I wrote a few outlines back in the day...Like Frank, I wrote a few outlines back in the day in order to get a contract. While I didn't exactly throw the outline away after that, I didn't spend a lot of effort adhering to it either ... I sort of follow a quote attributed to Mickey Spillane: "The first line of your story sells THAT story - The last line sells your NEXT one" ... For me, that means starting out with a title, a premise, and a pretty clear idea of how it's going to end. The title becomes a theme that the narrative tries to maintain, the ending is hopefully strong and memorable enough to make readers want more of either my byline or the series I am writing in ... By the way, if you're wondering why I'm injecting Spillane into a Western-themed blog, in case you didn't know Mickey once wrote a Western screenplay for John Wayne; no movie ever got made from it, but Max Allan Collins has done a novelization of the script that will be out this year. Spillane & the Duke - how would that have been for a team?wayne d. dundeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12468818760811792020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-8862658892980073252015-01-12T09:45:49.817-06:002015-01-12T09:45:49.817-06:00Frank -- makes sense to me! And I'll bet the s...Frank -- makes sense to me! And I'll bet the story didn't look much like the outline --and was much better for it!! Thanks for your comment.Richard Proschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08314680709014254183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-81548589413769597842015-01-12T07:58:45.690-06:002015-01-12T07:58:45.690-06:00I wrote an outline once, and only once, in order t...I wrote an outline once, and only once, in order to get the contract, then threw it out and wrote the story. Sometimes I don't have the faintest idea of story, instead I start with a character and let him tell his story. That may not be a very good way to do things but it has kept me in beans and bacon for almost forty years now. <br /><br />It is always interesting to see the way other writers do these things. Thanks for the post.<br />Frank Roderusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-55461710706652215022015-01-11T17:48:27.646-06:002015-01-11T17:48:27.646-06:00Terrific comment, Cheryl! Your timeline sounds lik...Terrific comment, Cheryl! Your timeline sounds like a great solution --especially when you have a cause-effect situation like that (pregnancy). Makes a lot of sense. Similarly, I've heard of writers doing outlines AFTER they write the chapter --so building the outline after the writing (rather than before) in order to keep track of details makes sense to me too. Thanks again!Richard Proschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08314680709014254183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-10560060141364708972015-01-11T16:26:33.403-06:002015-01-11T16:26:33.403-06:00Great comments, Vonn! I think in the end, if the w...Great comments, Vonn! I think in the end, if the writing isn't enjoyable for you, that's going to translate one way or other to the reader. I've gotten over the idea that any one book or story is very important. Instead, I'd rather have a body of work that was fun to produce.Richard Proschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08314680709014254183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-82162158181581992242015-01-11T15:58:06.279-06:002015-01-11T15:58:06.279-06:00Rich, I am a definite "pantser" and I lo...Rich, I am a definite "pantser" and I love that idea of "writing into the dark"--SO TRUE! My first book (which has never seen the light of day and may not ever!) was written from the middle out. I had a scene in mind--the scene where everything hinged on everything else--and I wrote it, then wrote from the beginning to get to that part, and from that part to get to the end. I think I learned more about writing a book working on that than anything else I've ever done. <br /><br />A valuable tool that I took from that was a timeline--not an outline--here's what I did. I knew the heroine was going to get pregnant about 4-6 weeks before this main scene took place. She needed to have the baby at Christmas, or near Christmas. There was a cattle drive in there--and that had to take place at a reasonable time period--because the hero and his father have a huge falling out over leaving the ranch with so few men, unprotected--of course, the father gets his way--he IS the boss! And the unthinkable does happen. So, everything depended on how long the cattle drive would take, when the outlaw raid the ranch, when the H/h "do the deed" and she gets pregnant--and everyone must arrive "back at the ranch" just after the outlaws have raided and left. I made a really crude timeline starting with Christmas when the heroine has the baby, and worked backward from that. Everything in that book takes place within one year's time--and it worked great because of the timeline. I use one now every time I write something longer--because it gives me a guide without the "handcuffs"--I like that! <br /><br />Great post!<br />CherylCheryl Piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116526340220274282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-9411079488551529922015-01-11T13:41:34.532-06:002015-01-11T13:41:34.532-06:00You address something that has been on my mind. Ou...You address something that has been on my mind. Our writing methods can be rolling along, going apparently well. Then, we read another author's work–or go back and read our own–and discover (gasp!) a weakness. Cardboard cutout supporting characters. Overuse of particular words or metaphors. Stiff dialogue. We were so blind to it but now it glows like the nose of a certain reindeer. Good heavenly days! What must my readers think of me?<br /><br />Changing one's methods takes honesty and commitment. Sometimes the answer is to tighten up. But, as you have pointed out, sometimes we actually need to loosen up–and this can be even harder to do. I guess the theory is that the more experience we have, the more we can stop worrying about the smaller details and protocols and trust the flow of the story.<br /><br />Thanks for an insightful post, Richard.Vonn McKeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02271500340284234767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-55552819407935877632015-01-11T13:37:32.786-06:002015-01-11T13:37:32.786-06:00Charlie and Doris -- The older I get, the less I l...Charlie and Doris -- The older I get, the less I like the term "writer." We (meaning us in WF) are first and foremost story tellers. I'll bet we've all read stories with great attention to characters, setting, technology, etc. --but not much story.Richard Proschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08314680709014254183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-15163410115474944472015-01-11T13:17:29.921-06:002015-01-11T13:17:29.921-06:00Oh, sorry, very interesting article!Oh, sorry, very interesting article!Charlie Steelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16992330591519249699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-18316589427556467862015-01-11T13:06:34.858-06:002015-01-11T13:06:34.858-06:00Very useful. As a new writer, it really helps seei...Very useful. As a new writer, it really helps seeing how others make their worlds come alive. For me I have the story idea, but the characters tend to step up and tell their story. <br />DorisRenaissance Womenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09045401344374224512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-67267085543884472152015-01-11T13:01:21.375-06:002015-01-11T13:01:21.375-06:00Basic premise, you must have an idea for a story a...Basic premise, you must have an idea for a story and go from there.Charlie Steelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16992330591519249699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-67541825248682707022015-01-11T10:56:04.489-06:002015-01-11T10:56:04.489-06:00Thanks Tom! Everybody writes differently, so it...Thanks Tom! Everybody writes differently, so it's fun to compare notes.Richard Proschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08314680709014254183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-65788744648595902272015-01-11T10:32:25.656-06:002015-01-11T10:32:25.656-06:00Thanks for the post and an insight into how you ha...Thanks for the post and an insight into how you handle "series" characters, Richard. Consistency, I suppose, is the toughest challenge when dealing with such characters. But "taking the handcuffs" off makes a lot of sense. Although I've never attempt a series, I would think detail can derail story. Your new approach sounds a lot more flexible.<br />thomasrizzohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00762315714546553945noreply@blogger.com