tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post9090726655794329667..comments2024-03-28T22:25:23.698-05:00Comments on Western Fictioneers: Famous Last Words: Capt. William FettermanWestern Fictioneershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01683314579075461026noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-74706878173042902482014-08-26T12:28:31.302-05:002014-08-26T12:28:31.302-05:00Ah, the burdens of professor-hood. :-DAh, the burdens of professor-hood. :-DAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05740371055384281988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-21475658850217131822014-08-26T12:24:53.179-05:002014-08-26T12:24:53.179-05:00Ha, but no one ever has to try very hard to drag i...Ha, but no one ever has to try very hard to drag it out of me; my family is often tempted to try to push it back in every now and then!Troy D. Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07744762061580915223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-86072141888599797332014-08-26T12:03:14.247-05:002014-08-26T12:03:14.247-05:00Troy, thanks for chiming in! I'm always gratef...Troy, thanks for chiming in! I'm always grateful when you share what you've learned. You've acquired so much knowledge and perspective about historical and contemporary issues, I don't think we could ever drag it all out of you no matter how hard we tried. :-D<br /><br />I don't know much about the Sioux, Arapaho, and Cheyenne worldview, but the Apache didn't believe they owned the land -- the land owned them. Commandeering their sacred places was tantamount to stealing their souls. That European Americans possessed the temerity to consider American Indians less than human has always seemed to me an excellent example of inhumanity.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05740371055384281988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-11510237391161627392014-08-26T11:26:49.817-05:002014-08-26T11:26:49.817-05:00One of my favorite parts of the Fetterman story- a...One of my favorite parts of the Fetterman story- as Crazy Horse is trying to lure the soldiers into the trap, he stops a couple of times and pretends to check his pony's hoof as though something is wrong, always just out of rifle range.<br /><br />Red Cloud's War is especially significant in that it is just about the only Indian war on the Plains in which, essentially, the Indians won. They had been protesting the Bozeman Trail and the flood of emigrants (mostly miners) passing through the Powder River country, contrary to previous treaties, and in the peace settlement the government ensured that no one could pass through or settle on that land without the Indians' approval, meaning the Indians got exactly what they were fighting for. That lasted for only a few years, though, until gold was discovered in the Black Hills and once more miners poured in. The army was obligated by treaty to keep the miners out, but the only way they could've done so would probably have been to kill several of them, so they stood by- resulting in the Sioux war that led to Custer following Fetterman's ill-planned example. The United States Supreme Court ruled in 1980 that those events were in violation of the treaty and therefore the Sioux Nation was entitled to just compensation, with over a century's worth of interest- estimated at around a billion dollars. But the Sioux Nation refused to accept the settlement, because to do so would be to relinquish the claim on their sacred Black Hills -they want their holy land back, not money. So the settlement is in a bank, still collecting interest.Troy D. Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07744762061580915223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-47637324010563762982014-08-26T08:54:46.092-05:002014-08-26T08:54:46.092-05:00BIG ouch, Vonn! :-DBIG ouch, Vonn! :-DAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05740371055384281988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-31571016475448193962014-08-26T08:53:15.039-05:002014-08-26T08:53:15.039-05:00I've always wondered about Fetterman's ele...I've always wondered about Fetterman's elevator, too, Tom. I've also always wondered what it must have been like for the men under the command of some of the over-confident (read "arrogant") army officers during the period. Of the deserters, how many took an unauthorized leave of absence because they saw the folly in their commander's plan?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05740371055384281988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-21862091425757453592014-08-26T08:49:27.615-05:002014-08-26T08:49:27.615-05:00Thanks, Okie! Historical events like this fuel my ...Thanks, Okie! Historical events like this fuel my writing. There's lots of evidence out there that truth really is stranger than fiction. :-DAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05740371055384281988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-32740231390701499802014-08-26T08:21:46.813-05:002014-08-26T08:21:46.813-05:0080 versus 2,300. Ouch.
What a story!80 versus 2,300. Ouch. <br /><br />What a story!Vonn McKeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02271500340284234767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-39899595448690819062014-08-25T16:26:36.260-05:002014-08-25T16:26:36.260-05:00Outstanding post, Kathleen. Eight seconds is a goo...Outstanding post, Kathleen. Eight seconds is a good timeframe for an inspiring "elevator" speech. Unfortunarely, Fetterman's remark was somewhat less than inspiring. I've always doubted whether his elevator reached the top floor anyway. thomasrizzohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00762315714546553945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-44091160932426267772014-08-25T15:08:14.750-05:002014-08-25T15:08:14.750-05:00An excellent post, as always, Kathleen. You did a ...An excellent post, as always, Kathleen. You did a great job with the research, and I always love your writing style! These are some amazing stories of arrogance and over-confidence. Just fascinating stuff.<br />CherylCheryl Piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116526340220274282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-61488423744955480482014-08-25T15:06:53.367-05:002014-08-25T15:06:53.367-05:00Very true, Oscar. Generally speaking, confidence i...Very true, Oscar. Generally speaking, confidence is a good thing...except when it's not. ;-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05740371055384281988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-3067466417017671472014-08-25T14:58:04.410-05:002014-08-25T14:58:04.410-05:00If you don't have confidence when you start ou...If you don't have confidence when you start out, you might as well not start.Oscar Casehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10328166606910469945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-32113841694089965192014-08-25T14:57:47.357-05:002014-08-25T14:57:47.357-05:00Miz Kaye, I do believe you're onto somethin...Miz Kaye, I do believe you're onto somethin' there. ;-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05740371055384281988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-43026983980532771922014-08-25T14:48:38.418-05:002014-08-25T14:48:38.418-05:00...and Custer said, "There are not enough Ind......and Custer said, "There are not enough Indians in the world to defeat the Seventh Cavalry." 0_o<br /><br />Apparently Fetterman and Custer drank from the same cup of blind arrogance. Kaye Spencerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530735658588595790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-18012650674376288762014-08-25T14:05:32.203-05:002014-08-25T14:05:32.203-05:00I tend to agree with you on all counts, Charlie. T...I tend to agree with you on all counts, Charlie. The Lakota, Arapaho, Cheyenne, Apache, Comanche, Seminole, and every other tribal group chased from its ancestral lands at gunpoint did what nations do when invaded. American policy during the period eventually led to the country stretching "from sea to shining sea" and emerging as one of the world's superpowers, but at tremendous cost. Genocide serves no one, even the victors.<br /><br />I'm constantly amazed and saddened by the hubris the U.S. Army was all too willing to display during the Indian Wars.<br /><br />Thanks for your compliments on the piece, honey. That means a lot to me, coming from one of the most diligent researchers I know. :-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05740371055384281988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-70562275156122097442014-08-25T13:54:06.513-05:002014-08-25T13:54:06.513-05:00I wholeheartedly agree, Doris. Stories like this a...I wholeheartedly agree, Doris. Stories like this are viewed through the lens of history, so who knows what actually went through anyone's mind at the time. Everything is grist for the fiction mill, though, isn't it? :-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05740371055384281988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-14654766670333264172014-08-25T11:14:58.678-05:002014-08-25T11:14:58.678-05:00Kathleen,
Absolutely a marvelously well written a...Kathleen,<br /><br />Absolutely a marvelously well written and researched piece! As ALWAYS---coming from you.<br /><br />If I may, I add this comment. The sublime arrogance of these officers, (my belief) came from the superior weapons the army had, and the indolent and genocidal thinking of the time, “the only good Indian is a dead one.” The US Government or the Army NEVER had the moral right to take the land or to kill. Just perhaps, the Lakota, Arapaho, and Cheyenne were justified in their defense of their land?<br /><br />Charlie<br /> <br />Charlie Steelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16992330591519249699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1409887812566625284.post-15877945492297591432014-08-25T11:02:22.909-05:002014-08-25T11:02:22.909-05:00How many overestimated their abitilies and underes...How many overestimated their abitilies and underestimated their enemy? Such is the story of the outward expansion of the country. Thank you for sharing these peice of history. Whether we ever learn from them..but I digress. <br /><br />I often wonder what went through the minds of the combatants in these situations. We will never truly know, but those speculations are the seeds of the stories we love about the West. Doris Renaissance Womenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09045401344374224512noreply@blogger.com